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Pilot Fatigue

321Captain

Active member
AIUI the Airbus systems (at least some years back) use 5 computers running 2 different (written/developed by different teams) sets of code (3 on one code, 2 on the other) for exactly that reason.
Failure is still possible, but I've not heard of any.
As these are bread and butter (or maybe waffles and maple syrup) to @321Captain perhaps he can elucidate on the latest 'stuff' with Airbus FBW.
The FBW system on the A320 series is a pretty good system. While nothing is perfect, the protections that it provides makes my job easier. I don’t need to worry about over stressing the aircraft, stalling, over or under speed situations. If you are about to fly into a mountain or an obstacle, the GPWS will scream at you to pull up, and you would select TOGA and pull all the way back on the stick without fear of stalling or breaking the wings off. Nice trick. I don’t know why there seems to be a push for single piloted operations. Every single flight, one of the pilots will make some kind of error. It doesn’t have to be anything consequential or dangerous, but the other set of eyes will generally catch the mistake. If the discussion is about saving money, then it doesn’t really make sense to me. Pilots gain experience flying with other pilots. How will the junior pilot gain the experience to become the only pilot on the flight deck? Watching videos? Flying simulators? Sims are great, but they aren’t going to be enough to give the real experience necessary to achieve the level of safety we all have come to expect. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I will be retired before any of this could conceivably come to pass. I do know that when I fly as a passenger in the future, I won’t get on an airline without two pilots in the cockpit.
 

affinity4aviation

Active member
The FBW system on the A320 series is a pretty good system. While nothing is perfect, the protections that it provides makes my job easier. I don’t need to worry about over stressing the aircraft, stalling, over or under speed situations. If you are about to fly into a mountain or an obstacle, the GPWS will scream at you to pull up, and you would select TOGA and pull all the way back on the stick without fear of stalling or breaking the wings off. Nice trick. I don’t know why there seems to be a push for single piloted operations. Every single flight, one of the pilots will make some kind of error. It doesn’t have to be anything consequential or dangerous, but the other set of eyes will generally catch the mistake. If the discussion is about saving money, then it doesn’t really make sense to me. Pilots gain experience flying with other pilots. How will the junior pilot gain the experience to become the only pilot on the flight deck? Watching videos? Flying simulators? Sims are great, but they aren’t going to be enough to give the real experience necessary to achieve the level of safety we all have come to expect. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I will be retired before any of this could conceivably come to pass. I do know that when I fly as a passenger in the future, I won’t get on an airline without two pilots in the cockpit.
Amen! We've now heard it from an expert pilot, which comes as no surprise! Two sets of highly experienced eyes, analytical skills + CRM can't conceivably be fully replaced by automation + one pilot!
Wonderful to hear your 'real life' thoughts on the FBW system. Thank you.
 

Plague

Active member
How will the junior pilot gain the experience to become the only pilot on the flight deck?
Indeed. I was thinking exactly that earlier in the thread. Presumably they'd have to have double-manned flights some of the time just for training purposes.

I'm probably a decade older than you, so probably dead before (if) it comes to pass, but it's always interesting to try and predict the future.
 

Sonerai

Active member
Well I am 76 and getting ready to run for 2024, hey I just announced so I can take any donations now, lol
 

Sean

Active member
I'm not that old.
Or rich, or American, or ... actually I don't think I have a single characteristic that would qualify.
What makes you think anybody who will be running for POTUS in 2024 will be in any way qualified to perform the job well? Not that it would matter if they elected a Real American Hero who was equipped to clean out the Augean Stables. Yanks mostly don't understand the limitations of the job, they expect once they've anointed a Fearless Leader their duties and responsibilities are done and he is expected to fix everything immediately. Voting is supposed to work like magic.
 

Plague

Active member
What makes you think anybody who will be running for POTUS in 2024 will be in any way qualified to perform the job well?
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that at all. :ROFLMAO:

The 'qualifications' to (attempt to) become an elected politician (pretty much anywhere in the world) are largely incompatible with those needed to do the job well. Failure is baked in.

Naturally I think I could do a good job of it, but that automatically excludes me from qualifying. Thus we (US, UK, France, Brazil, Russia, ... etc) end up with a bunch of self-serving f***wits in charge. (China may be an exception, but their rules are a bit different.)
 

MsHighAltitude

Administrator
Staff member
Naturally I think I could do a good job of it, but that automatically excludes me from qualifying. Thus we (US, UK, France, Brazil, Russia, ... etc) end up with a bunch of self-serving f***wits in charge. (China may be an exception, but their rules are a bit different.)
Hey the prime minister spot might be up for grabs soon. :)

It's the same in China, except I've read the ruling party is under more pressure to show they've generated economic growth and made people's life better (or at least tried to) since they can't hype up the voters on ideological differences (and there's no opposition party to blame...). But interesting what one can do when there's no term limit.

Oh, I know I could do an excellent job
I reserve my opinion until I get that ride on Air Force One. 😜
 

Plague

Active member
Hey the prime minister spot might be up for grabs soon.
We can only hope, but that man is like a teflon coated truck tyre.
(You do realise it's his girlfriend-now-wife who is actually pulling his strings.)

It's the same in China,
May be out of date now, but certainly a few years ago a good proportion of their ruling elite were actually technologists and the like, which must have helped them get where they are now as a tech giant.
But of course politics, corruption and face-saving are still big. They've certainly painted themselves into a corner with their 'zero covid' strategy :rolleyes:
 

affinity4aviation

Active member
I'm not that old. :mad:
Or rich, or American, or ... actually I don't think I have a single characteristic that would qualify.
s
You're over 35, which is one requirement! Mandatory retirement for a commercial pilot is 65, yet you can be President at Biden's geriatric age of 79. Perhaps they should consider rethinking mental acuity skills needed + change the oldest eligible age to run for President + VP to 65. It's also generational mindsets that are somewhat 'outdated.'
Oh, I know I could do an excellent job
My guess is you'd have the same endearing nickname as Jaques Chirac did, when I lived there, aka "Le Bulldozer" for his keen knack of getting things done.
 

affinity4aviation

Active member
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that at all. :ROFLMAO:

The 'qualifications' to (attempt to) become an elected politician (pretty much anywhere in the world) are largely incompatible with those needed to do the job well. Failure is baked in.

Naturally I think I could do a good job of it, but that automatically excludes me from qualifying. Thus we (US, UK, France, Brazil, Russia, ... etc) end up with a bunch of self-serving f***wits in charge. (China may be an exception, but their rules are a bit different.)
You know the adage, 'He who has the gold rules.' Money, name recognition + nepotism prevail.
 
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affinity4aviation

Active member
We can only hope, but that man is like a teflon coated truck tyre.
(You do realise it's his girlfriend-now-wife who is actually pulling his strings.)

May be out of date now, but certainly a few years ago a good proportion of their ruling elite were actually technologists and the like, which must have helped them get where they are now as a tech giant.
But of course politics, corruption and face-saving are still big. They've certainly painted themselves into a corner with their 'zero covid' strategy :rolleyes:
Biden's public speaking is at times concerning.
'Zero Covid' strategy is a pipe dream, as you know. Surgical masks are FAR less effective than N-95's, despite some politicians making them sound like they're the 'be all, end all' solution, combined with the vaccine. Many people don't wear it properly, or they re-wear single use masks, making it pointless. The new mandate temp. requiring masks indoors, in CA. will affect holiday business, yet S.F. + some other counties have less restrictive rules, esp. for places, like offices + gyms if everyone is fully vaccinated. Online shopping will cont. to boom!
 
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Sonerai

Active member
Masks did no good in 1919 and inspite of medical advances, many tyrants demand you wear one of the same type
 
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