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Keeping the nose gear high after landing

Southern Cross

New member
Hi guys,

First post here.

For you 747 drivers out there, I ask this:
A video circulated recently showing a 747 landing, where the pilot kept the nosewheel off the runway, well up in the air, for some 15 seconds after touch down and only then he started to "de-rotate", lowering the nose gear.
Here is the video: youtube.com/watch?v=hbrUPDLhZJE
If the link doesn't show, please append "/watch?v=hbrUPDLhZJE" (without quotes) to the youtube URL.

The question here is not whether or not he should have done that, but rather how hard would it be to actually do it. IOW, what kind of force on the yoke would it take to keep the nosewheel in the air for such a long time, assuming the airplane was properly trimmed during touchdown? Would it take an unusually large amount of force on the yoke? Would he "run out of elevator travel"? Would it be necessary to re-trim the stabilizer? Or would the usual back pressure, not dissimilar to flaring, be enough to do it? Any thoughts?
 
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Roichi

Member
Depends on the speed as flight control forces and therefore effect are related to airspeed.
If you are still very fast down the runway for whatever reason there is not much of a difference to the touchdown point. Like low level flying with wheels touching.
When you slow down you have to apply more deflection / yoke, to create the same amount of force on the elevator. Until you run out of elevator movement.
 

WING

Member
I personally wouldn't deliberately hold it up for such a long time just to make it super soft while increasing the risk of hitting the tail due to improper input.
I am on the 777, not the 747, please correct me if I am wrong.
 

Southern Cross

New member
I personally wouldn't deliberately hold it up for such a long time just to make it super soft while increasing the risk of hitting the tail due to improper input.
I am on the 777, not the 747, please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks for the input. But the question wasn't really about the risk involved or if the pilot should have done it, but rather how much pressure one would actually need to apply on the yoke to do it. Any thoughts on this? I take it that you fly the 777, BTW?
Thanks again
 

RobertGary1

Active member
I can tell you that in the Citation jet you could probably run all the way down the runway and off the end with the nose up if you wanted. The nose stays up on its own and you have to release back pressure to put the nose down. In jets your normally approach attitude is already nose high. .
Now in a GA planes its totally different. You approach at a flat angle and then have to hold the plane off to get the nose up. Then the nose falls down even with full back pressure.

-Robert
 
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MET30

New member
Simple answer is no it wouldn't be that hard to keep the nose up a bit assuming the aircraft is properly balanced and trimmed. Since the aircraft has powered flight controls it's not like they'd be struggling to pull the yoke back or anything like that, eventually you'd just start to lose elevator authority and the nose will drop when it wants. Keeping the nose up during landing is a common practice in some aircraft (mainly military) for increased aerodynamic braking.
 

Rabuly

Member
Simple answer is no it wouldn't be that hard to keep the nose up a bit assuming the aircraft is properly balanced and trimmed. Since the aircraft has powered flight controls it's not like they'd be struggling to pull the yoke back or anything like that, eventually you'd just start to lose elevator authority and the nose will drop when it wants. Keeping the nose up during landing is a common practice in some aircraft (mainly military) for increased aerodynamic braking.
This is what I love about digging into these forums. I had never heard nor thought about keeping the nose up for increased aerodynamic braking. Pretty interesting, and it is awesome to unexpectedly learn about it. Thanks for the contribution @MET30 (y)
 

Mr.Plop

Member
Unrelated but in GA if you apply enough yoke pressure and throttle to find the right balance you can do wheelies for the entire length of the airport :ROFLMAO:
 

Rabuly

Member
Unrelated but in GA if you apply enough yoke pressure and throttle to find the right balance you can do wheelies for the entire length of the airport :ROFLMAO:
Are you talking from experience? Does the FAA know about this? haha JK. It'd be fun to watch!
 
Well. I have asked some older captains about this and they have told me that it was pretty common in 707s and 727s. There was even a pilot that would keep the nose up of a 727 even at 80kts!!!!

However in my airline this is heavily discouraged and you can even get a report for that. Anyway, we are always told to lower the nose gently and since we are sitting just a metre in front of the nose gear, it really feels bad when we are not doing so!!!!!

I learned it the hard way..... and the front cabin attendant wasn’t happy about that!
 

Siris

Active member
Not an airline pilot but they could be applying aerobraking. In the baron for example when you short field it you hold the nose high (don't generally like to lift the nose wheel for control purposes but i guess you could) to present the belly of the aircraft to oncoming air and create more drag thus slowing the aircraft substantially quicker.
 

RAF805

Member
On the B-25, normal procedure is to keep the nose high and use aero braking. It is very effective and helps save the brakes. There are a lot of very cool things on the B-25, the brakes are not one of them though!
 

Siris

Active member
On the B-25, normal procedure is to keep the nose high and use aero braking. It is very effective and helps save the brakes. There are a lot of very cool things on the B-25, the brakes are not one of them though!
Every time you mention that B-25 I can't help but be jealous!
 

RAF805

Member
Every time you mention that B-25 I can't help but be jealous!
I was just lucky and in the right spot at the right time. I never would have had a chance to fly a B-25 if it wasn't for some senior pilots who are taking the time to mentor me. Its a lot of work but also very rewarding.
 

Zeede

Active member
I was just lucky and in the right spot at the right time. I never would have had a chance to fly a B-25 if it wasn't for some senior pilots who are taking the time to mentor me. Its a lot of work but also very rewarding.
Where is the B-25 based out of?
 

RAF805

Member
The Waypoint Cafe! It's a great restaurant. The only problem with it is that it has become so popular, there is almost always a wait to get in!
 

Siris

Active member
I was just lucky and in the right spot at the right time. I never would have had a chance to fly a B-25 if it wasn't for some senior pilots who are taking the time to mentor me. Its a lot of work but also very rewarding.
Great so we know who the leverage now! kidding.... mostly :p
 
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